It’s Time
On the heels of the BYUi article, comes another one from Time Magazine.
Now before I start my rant, I’ve been told by *more* than one person, that they are suprised what I write.
Do any of you find that as well? Are there reasons why? Am I doctrinely wrong? Am I making the Female Gender upset with me?
Anyways, the Times article quotes Elder Oaks (of the Twelve) in a talk he gave.
A talk he gave around May 1st. In this talk, he said “Hanging Out is Not OK”, and listed the three P’s. I can’t help but feel that this article is a bit late though…..
The one part I remember is “Close the Pantries.”, in fact, I posted about my plight aftewards here.
I found the article interesting, especially since I also wrote about the other article about the growing singles population on in this article.
So.. Onto the article: Alone in the Pews
The church has tried to do some adjusting itself. Since the 1970s, it has ministered to single members through singles wards, congregations specifically for unmarried 18-to-30-year-olds. In the past five years the number of those congregations has jumped to more than 500, from 300.
That’s an addition of 200 units! That’s over 50 units a year! For me, that’s a huge number, especially if you figure 60 avg people attending x 200 units. Over 12000 additional Young Singles are Young Single Congregations.
Marie Wilson, who converted to the LDS faith 10 years ago, is the only never married member of the singles group in her Winston-Salem, N.C., ward and, at 35, the youngest by at least a decade. Her church friends, she says, “can’t relate because most of them have been married since they were in their early 20s. I’ve lived alone my entire life.”
I think this has been brought up in most of those other articles. There are the two groups. Those who are able to get married fast, and after the mission, and those who get married a big bit later.
I was recently at a SAMS club, eating my Saturday lunch (aka, walking up and down the samples isle) talking with one of the samples ladies (I’ve become good friends with, surprising. Really) when she was enquiring about my love life. Along came some people, looking to get some sample sugar cookies when they heard her and I talking. They managed to hear me and the samples lady discussing what we though, and the guy said something to the affect of “Don’t let her pressure you, it took me until I was 40 to find my wife *As he hugged her* and I wouldn’t give her up for anything”. The samples lady then shoooed them away with something like “No COOKIES for YOU!”.
Anyways, this is becoming a sociatal norm. Is it good? Is it right? I don’t know. I do see a widening gap between the world and the Church on this issue. I can see why it’s easier for people to slowly fade into in activity as they get older. The world just doesn’t have the expectations that the Church Culture does.
Even in Manhattan–with a vast support network of unmarried Mormons–Jeffrey Jackson, 27, says he and friends in his singles ward immediately put “more focus on one-on-one relationships,” proposing more dates and trying to consider their female friends as potential wives.
All I can say is yea.
Despite what I think a few girls think, there is no vast male consipiracy to not date or not get married. Most men do want to get married.
It’s just that ya’ll are smart and intimidating and stuff.
Actually, I don’t know. I don’t know what the root problem is, so I have no idea what the solution is.
Thus, I am not an advice columnist.
I’m just having fun on this journey called life.
I’m not surprised by what you write. You have a great way of expressing typical male angst in the dating world. We girls do it all the time, so it’s nice to see that from a guy. I think girls need to read stuff like that, and guys need to know they aren’t alone.
And as far as focusing so much on being single, that’s just sort of a symptom of LDS culture. We focus so much on the family that you naturally wonder about your own status in getting there yourself. And it’s much easier to say these sorts of things to no one in particular than to your parents, sibs, or guy friends. I can’t really see you and your buddies sitting around discussing your inner feelings just for fun.
For my part, I say rock on.
Who knows what the solution is?! I get different advice from many different sources. I just figure things will work out in the way and time they are supposed to. Someday someone will truly see me and think I’m beautiful even with all my idiosyncracies and inconsistencies (and the fact that I am not worldy beautiful at all). Till then, I never assume anything but friendship when I am with a guy, until we have a DTR or he makes it very clear he is asking me on a date (you know, the three P’s). And I’m having fun making friends. But the problem with friendship is that there are some things you can’t do or you risk ruining the friendship. Like snuggling. Sometimes I just miss being safely ensconced in someone’s arms all warm and cozy (but only if the snuggling is exclusive). Especially when its freezing cold out or I had a heart wrenching day trying to be what my clients need. Sigh.
Again Chris, you’re a great guy, and I love your analysis of these situations. Sorry if we got a little heated over at lolslc.
Ok, I have been following the Hardyman’s blog for sometime now and I just can’t take it anymore. I have to pipe in and put in my two bits. As a single 28 year old LDS male I am convinced this “problem” is far more complex than simply the number of singles increasing. There are so many facets to this issue from the quote unquote delay of marriage, hanging-out syndrome and so on but is that really the only contribution to singledom? No way! Look at the amount of young divorced members of the church. I don’t have the stats but if you want to get an idea just log on to any “lds” singles site and you will see the droves of divorced members. Mind you we are all under 31. I just moved from a singles ward that had a good 10-15% of the women who were divorced. How many of the men? ZERO. Everyone of the women that I knew who had been divorced were so because their husbands chose to leave the Church atleast in actions. Our age group suffers from huge amounts of inactivity (and if you look at the records they haven’t just been inactive for the past year or two, most have been gone since they were 15-17 years old) Only 10-20% of the 18-30 year olds are active. Obviously, we haven’t just put off marriage but many other things the Church teaches. I think the amount of singles is directly related to the amount of kids who have strayed and or who have married and then their spouses have done such. If they stopped attending church when they were 17 it is more than likely they aren’t going to follow the typical LDS married by 22 pattern. (They may be active now but they are a bit older now) And if they did follow the pattern and ended up single again by 25 we again have singles. So, here is my take on the Church’s reaction. I think the Church leadership has finally figured out that singles are unique and need help. I have seen first hand the Church’s effort to combat the single issue. In the last year the number of singles units in the Denver area went from 3 to 13. Since the change activity among singles has more than doubled. Marriages, they are skyrocketing. We averaged two marriages a month in the first year our unit was formed. The only way to fix the problem is to add more resources. That is exactly what the Church is doing. Increased units and increased funds are there to help the issue. I think the increase in units will actually decrease the number of singles quite rapidly. Now that singles have a place to call home. A place where they can go to learn with others in their situation. A place where they can make changes as needed and have leadership that can deal with it, things will change. As for all of the other issues that have added to singledom. Come on I’m 28 years old. I think I can figure out why I’m not married. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out if you don’t date, if you don’t court and if you don’t propose staying single is the only option!! I think we should spend more time talking about what it really takes to make the marriage last than just the idea of marriage itself. We need more men that will stay the course and not leave the women to fight the cause of truth alone. We need to forget the idea that marriage will solve our problems and face reality that the problems have yet to begin. All in all we need to return to the basics and find that we all have roles to play. I could go on for hours about that issue alone and Chris can testify to that. We need to leave the mainstream alone and return to what the Gospel teaches us. We will see the divide. It is a guarantee. Ok, I’m gonna quit now before I explode but anyway the issue is very complex. Each situation I’m sure is unique and there is no cure all but can we just let it rest!! Talking about being single won’t reduce the numbers without action. I’m aware of my situation and know darn well how to fix it. Juli, as for Chris not talking to his buddies, oh how very wrong you are. I have talked to Chris about these things for years. We have been good friends for about 13 years. You would be amazed how much LDS men talk about their desires and frustrations with each other. We don’t call it fun, we call it HomeTeaching. Over dinner of course!!
Wow. Wire writes a comment.
Stop the presses >:)
Wire, you know, it’s either this, or the fact that I just saw HR Puf-n-Stuf on Tvland, and have been watching Tv Land all day trying to see him again..
Pick your poison… 😉
Ok,Ok I’ll get you the HR Dvd for Christmas!!! For the love keep it all to yourself. Oh and you keep talking about this girl…phantom women you ever going to show yourself? I find it amazing that the weekend I leave Cheytown your show up!!
I don’t agree with your two groups theory, Chris. You seem to want to divide those who get married after their mission (which you term as “quick”) and those who get married much later. From my experience, there’s many more divisions. Here’s my divisions with guesses on the percentages. I’m no mathmatician but I play one on the Internet.
1. Those that get married in their teens because they got pregnant and they do the “right thing” in getting married. (.05%)
2. Those that get married instead of going on a mission. (1%)
3. Those that get married within the first 4 years from returning from their mission (75%).
4. Those that get married within a few years after college (20%)
5. Those that get married more than a few years after college (4%).
Why are there such a vast majority in #3? I don’t think it’s just culture “to get married young” but where else will you be around so many other LDS singles than at college?
I know friends in every category. I think why there’s such a big drop off after college is just a simple lowering of potential mates in your life. My friend goes to work, has a career, goes on business trips and isn’t around other singles nearly as much as he was when he was going to college.
Not 100% applies to this topic but thought I’d add my thoughts.
On another topic, Tywire, is your keyboard missing an “Enter” key? That was so hard to read through.
That 75% is really inflated, in my opinion. Probably no more than 2/3.
Could be. I was just giving generalities for effect.
I just avoided you on purpose. don’t want the *best* friend to judge me…:)yet
Tyson: If I get HR puf-n-stuff, you *KNOW* I’m going to be playing it for anyone unfortunate enough to be walking down the street. As for the girl, well, you are the one who drove away.
Cameron: Elder Oaks *says* that the YSA of the church are getting married later, and having less kids. I tend to agree with Tyson’s rant a bit. A lot of it has to do with the world.
stacer: I agree
mgm: Oh, don’t worry. He’s a big teddy bear.
Chris- I feel for the girl having to watch that stuff with you but then again I don’t imagine you two actually spend much time watching tv
M- Judge? Come on that is what friends are for!!
Wire- What are you infering? 🙂
I’m going to pipe in with my two bits here now that I found this…
(And yes, I remember that talk – I found myself agreeing with it, even though my heart was in my throat when he got to the part about pairing up!)
I remember trying to date when I was in Missouri (I admit, that was almost 3 years ago now) and it seemed that the only way I could get a date was as a group activity – when I asked ladies out on “one-on-one” dates, they refused – and usually at where I lived and provided the food (I had 2-3 roommates who’d help out and invite someone each, as well)!
Now, I’m over in Japan, where I’m in one of those 500 new congregations (it was just formed 18 months ago) – the active YSA/SA population is 90+% male… can we say fun? (There are literally TWO active single sisters around my age in the whole district, and another two between 18 and 21… one of these minutes, I have got to ask one of them out. I DO talk to them, but I can’t say I have the highest of hopes. The intimidation factor is certainly there, however! Plus, they’d have to do the driving.)
at least u have had group dates chris i had nothing not that i’m ugly there none in the place were i leave
Honestly Chris, I think it has to do with people trying to seek out the perfect person. Because their is no perfect person they end up searching for a long time. In todays society we are used to getting exactly what we want. People need to learn that settling isnt always a bad thing. People are different and its those differences that make a relationship so exciting. It’s those differences that teach us many lessons. How boring would it be if we all married someone who was exaclty like us? Would we ever learn our faults? Would we ever try new things?