Single Guys & Weddings
Mom.. Calm down, I’m not getting married…
Yet..
Yesterday I was reading me some Single Thought as I am prone to do on a Thursday. This article is written in part by Erin Ann McBride you might know her from other great postings as the Blog War of 2005 (otherwise known as the “most comments I’ve ever gotten on a blog entry”). Looking at her blog she even referenced me me in a blog post! Reading the blog and the Single Thought column together helps fill in the gaps if you want to know where some of the articles come from.
Where was I?
Oh yes. I was reading the Single Thought article for this week and those two mentioned the following
But something funny happens on the way to the altar in our culture. We don’t start dating until we are 16, and don’t seriously date until we are 18, and yet thousands among our ranks will be married by the time they are 19 years old. The same girls that are incapable of picking a major are somehow capable of knowing that they have met the perfect man with whom to spend the rest of their lives, buy the groceries with, pay the bills with, argue over landscaping with, and plain pick out house with.
Ohh, that’s something I’ve been saying for a LONG TIME now. Alas, I’ve been told “Sometimes you just know.” Alas, I don’t believe this one BIT! I think in our culture, we get twitterpated, and decide, based on those feelings of twitterpation, that this person is the person whom you are destined to spend eternity with. From about 70% of the couples I’ve seen they are in such a rush to go from courtship to marriage that they don’t even try to learn who the person they are with is.
Later on they talk about Single Men at weddings.
The next funny thing that our beloved Diva noticed was the lack of single men in the room.
….
Outside LDS culture, it is well known that a wedding is a great place to meet other singles. Oddly enough, it is quite possible to attend an LDS reception and be the only singleton in the room. We thought about this anomaly and think we have figured it out. Outside of the LDS world, you expect to find all of the single friends of the bride and groom at the reception, but inside the LDS world (particularly outside of Utah) you don’t expect to see their friends at all. The friends generally live scattered all over the country, and choose not to attend the weddings of their friends. And after all, who would fly across the country to attend a boring LDS wedding?
My awnser to this is two fold.
1) I *abhore* going to weddings. Is it because I don’t like the groom? No. Is it because I don’t like the bride? No.
It’s because there is so much pressure as a Single Mormon Male to be married. Weddings then serve a three fold purpose.
a) you are reminded you don’t have a wife
b) you are quizzed as to why you aren’t dating all these girls
c) the married couple are busy trying to get you married to their friends.
I’ve got much more enjoyable things I’d rather do. Such as gazing at my navel and watching paint dry. Perhaps even getting my foot stuck in a bear trap.
2) The LDS weddings are boring because the culture (especially in Utah) is one of being cheap and chintzy. The entire Cheap mindset goes beyond the weddings, but it’s noticable in the weddings. My little brother Brian’s wedding (photos) was a pull out all the stops event. There was a limo, there was a DJ dance floor, there was a catered dinner.
There is such a difference between the “Lets go get some SAMS Club meatballs. Make a line, and collect as much schwag as we can” mentality and the “Lets have a DJ, rent out a building, have a big celibration and honor the married couple” mentality. This also leads into the entire subject that I get *far* more wedding invites from my “I barely know you” mormon friends than my non-member friends. It just seems that Mormon Wedding parties are so much geared for getting as much stuff as possible, with as little possible provided to the guests. I’ll rant about this at some other time.
Needless to say, I’m going to be much more inclined to attend a event where it feels like a celebration. I think it’s human nature to react with the same enthusiasm that others are.
In other news, the whiny hard drive is getting replaced this weekend. I found a Hard Drive at Circuit City that will do nicely. Whiny drive, your days are numbered.
Awesome Article!! I totally loved it! And great insights…isn’t it the truth. I’m so skeptical of young/6months of dating marriages. All the stats, I know them because my mom is a psychologist at the YI, strongly show EVEN LDS COUPLES have a WAY WAY HIGHER divorce rates & unhappy marriages when they marry at a young age (so ridiculously high that if you saw them, you would wait and get to really know your boyfriend). Being LDS does not make you immune from making really stupid choices because you really like how romantic the speed and feeling is. oh these poor people.
I on the other hand am approaching late 20s…and outside of the LDS Culture…am now becoming fair-game. 🙂
Here I am commenting again. Am overwhelmed and stressed with too much to do and too little time and yet there’s always time to procrastinate. Hmm. Okay, so I agree with your post and Erin’s about 19 year olds rushing to the altar. And yet here’s the conundrum as a YSA who will hit my expiration date in 6 months. The older I get the more I know what I want and don’t want, through trial and error, bad dating experiences, and the ever present examples of the families I work with, and yet the options grow more limited. I find myself wondering if I am being too picky and thinking about what I am willing to compromise as my child bearing years wane on and the available men get younger. Example: met a really nice, educated, handsome man in his mid 30’s the other day in similar field as me with genuine interest in helping people and caring demeanor, life experience and intelligence. Most likely not a member. Contrast this (speaking in generic terms) to local YSA branch. Where there are men in there early to mid twenties, some living at home (which limits life experience)and minimal education, but they hold the priesthood. And I’m in the middle of this limbo land wondering why can’t there be a cross between the two?! I can be a cradle robbing Mrs. Robinson or date divorcees or non members. It’s a bit crazy making. And I don’t like to worry about things beyond my control, but its hard not to when you have sacred desires and limited vision on how they are going to be fulfilled. That’s all. Sorry this is so long Chris. And Erin, KUDOS to you finding time to be creative amongst all the craziness! My creativity is still on my list of things I talk about wanting to do (write a book or screenplay) and yet have not made time to actually do. Too much to do, too little time, and the pipe dreams get pushed to the back in the day to day struggle for survival. Sad.
Navel-gazing is an underrated and uniformly satisfying activity.
I applaud your endorsement of said phenomenon.
My little sister’s roommate just got engaged after dating the guy a month. A month. Say it with me: a month.
I can feel some high therapy bills coming on…
totally off topic, but: Dane Cook and Pablo Francisco are going to be performing in Vegas in a month.
Bronze A Package: Lewis Black, Dave Attell, Dane Cook, Carlos Mencia, and Pablo Francisco.
My heavens, that’s an awesome lineup.
total lack of linkage, oh my.
http://www.vegas.com/searchagent/event/SearchResultView.do?id=12018&vc1=49&vc2=rhs_txt_cfest
How many of you can I quote in my next column?
I love the feedback! Thanks!
EA
Amen, brother. I didn’t even go to my own COUSIN’S wedding last weekend because I knew it would be B to the ORING. Peanuts and pillow mints in a Sacrament cup anyone?
Also, my younger twin brothers both got married 18 months ago at 22 to girls they had met 4 & 6 months before. Which I know is an eternity for a large majority of Mormon. Wait. You don’t know how old my s.i.l.’s were. 18!!!!! Make it stop! How can you possibly know at 18 that you want to spend the rest of your life with one of my annoying brothers and their annoying habits? I’m sorry, but I’m just not buying it.
I think there’s this insane mad rush to just get married already becuase your life just has no meaning unless you have a diamond ring, a mortgage, and a baby on the way.
Whoops. Didn’t mean to rant.
You know Chris, this has been one of your better blogs!!! Well, your blogs are always good….. I totally agree!! It makes me sick, that us mormons date for such a tiny amount of time, and then decide to get hitched. What makes me even sicker, is that the guys go for such young girls. I see so many guys my age, 24-25 marrying these 18-19 year old girls! How can anyone know what they really want at that age???
I’ll tell you why we get married so young: HORMONES. Sad but true. If you’re a good little Mormon boy/girl, taking your relationship to the next level can’t involve anything within the Mormon strike zone (that means no legal contact with body parts from the shoulder to the knees, people!) unless you’re married. So you get married. The thing is, mostly it works because we’re ideally marrying people who have the same background and belief system. Sometimes it doesn’t, though, because we did it too early to the wrong person because we couldn’t keep the hormones in check.
But I have no room to talk…I married a rebound guy I knew for 6 months (got engaged after 3 weeks…yes 3, pick your jaws up off the floor now please.) Seven years and two kids later we haven’t killed each other yet. Although that may change if the farting in bed doesn’t stop. I’ll let you know!
And Hardy, when are you going to send us your guest column??? We’ll totally run you. We love the line about belly button observation.
Panini: I’d have to agree. This goes back to my belief that a lot of courtship just isn’t taught in the church. In fact, a lot is just left to the young adults to figure out for themselves.
CG: I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, I’m glad I’m a guy. Alas, I’ve been to a few different wards/branches and LDS guys don’t date that much.
howlingman: Have you ever tried staring at the ceiling? I could spend hours doing that as well…
Susannah: If you see those three (including Carlos), I’m going to have to be very jelous…
EA: I think you can use any of the comments 😉 Panini even references you in her blog. You are starting to make your way across the blog-o-sphere.
Julie: Oh, that’s just because us guys have to capitolize on female insecurity while we can. Sweet, sweet female insecurity. (Kidding!, well, not a whole lot). I don’t see the problem with older guys dating younger girls >:)
Juli: What do you want me to talk about? 🙂 I could do an *entire* article about navel gazing, but I’m figuring people would be put off by that.
I am not sure I am a typical Mormon guy anymore. I used to think I was fairly mainstream, but after reading some of this, I am starting to wonder… I grew up in the church, went to most of the single stuff, and ended up getting married at 26. Some said it was too early, others too late, I think that’s to be expected. So for what it’s worth, here’s my perspective.
19 year olds getting married??? Much of that has to be emotion and twiterpation. We are taught to wait until we are older to date (16), so we are more in control of our emotions and passions. We are told to not start dating seriously until 18 for the same reasons. I don’t have total control over my emotions now at 30, so while I definitely agree that it needs to be later in life, I don’t see 18 as a magical pass to emotionville where we are free to experience anything we like and fall in love. I am sure there are people who were more mature and experienced at 18 than I was, but I see 16 and 18 as minimums, not maximums, nor required times to begin certain activities.
Another thought I had was that in the church, we constantly know which “class” we belong to. It is determined by age. At 18 months, you go to nursery, then sunbeams (or whatever they call it nowadays) at 12, you are a deacon or beehive, etc. During these 18 years, it all builds up to the ultimate goal of marriage. Why? Because family is what it’s all about. So what happens when you hit 18? You enter this void when all of a sudden, not only is your scholastic life changing and wide open, but in the church, your new class is “adult” and you are never going to leave that “class”. So what do we do? We add in subclasses of “single adult” and. “married adult”. This makes us “feel better” since we still have the goal to be married, but now that we have passed the great “18” divide, we need to separate those of us who have completed the “marriage” step and those who have not. Keep in mind that to me this is more of a mental separation, not physical one like it was in primary or YM/YW. Sure there are single activities and classes, but the same material is taught in both. The separation is so that as singles we can increase our circle of friends, not so we can be taught how to be “single members”. We were single for 18 years and were taught about marriage growing up, nothing changes on our birthday. The only difference I see once you do get married is that your perspective changes. Instead of thinking “how can I prepare for marriage”, you are thinking “how can I improve my marriage”. One of my pet peeves in the church is part of the singles population feeling like EQ or RS don’t apply to them because all they talk about is marriage. Give me a break. If we went by this logic, any investigator that came to church would have to have their own class during EQ/RS on “How to become a Mormon”, instead of how to live the gospel in your particular stage of life. Don’t get me wrong, I am not pointing any fingers to anyone here, as I haven’t seen this mentality in the posts on Hardy’s blog, but I was single long enough to see it first hand and it drove me nuts. If a single member can’t openly and actively discuss the 2 lessons a year on marriage with other married members, then we might as well get rid of every lesson, because if the act of getting married automatically meant you were perfect in the rest of the gospel, there would be no reason to teach anything else. If someone has a problem with tithing, you don’t create a new “non-tithed” class to focus on that. Why should we single out singles as far as the gospel is concerned? I don’t think we should. Parties and activities? Oh yeah, we married folks are just too boring and “safe”. I actually find it refreshing to hear from single guys in EQ talking about how they want married life to be. It reminds me of all of the things I wanted and hoped for and makes me double check myself.
Sorry for the soap box there, just had to get it off my chest. That whole point was to show that I think perhaps one reason some marry so young is that once we hit 18 in the church, the next “step” or class change is up to us and can go as fast or slow as we choose, with some obvious limitations. So some get really giddy with emotion, see that all of the alleged requirements are met and take the plunge, not realizing that perhaps there is more to this step than an age change. Hard to break old habits I guess. On the flip side, if I had found my wife-to-be at a younger age, and we were willing to commit to marriage then, and we had both received real answers to our prayers about it, then I don’t see any problem with marrying younger. I think the 2 biggest issues with marriage/divorce in the church are commitment and condonement. (I think I just made that word up). Commitment to the covenant, your spouse and God, and condoned by God is what marriage is, not twiterpation. Twiterpation is a wonderful consequence of human relations and part of the marriage process, but not to be the determining factor. As long as you have this, age 18 or 58 doesn’t make a difference because if it’s the “right” thing to do, and you both are committed to it, you’ll get over the hurdles.
Can I keep going? I probably need to get back to work. Hardy, feel free to kill this if it’s too long. I’ll make this part quick. As far as weddings go, I like going to weddings for the cake. I never considered picking anyone up at a wedding as a single, so I guess I am typical on the Mormon front there. It’s hard to try to enjoy celebrating such a grand event with one of your best friends, when they are all of a sudden being whisked away with their new “best friend”, but in the end, if you are happy for them, you can find a way to enjoy it. I will say that we did not opt for the traditional cultural hall fest. We really didn’t want a big party. We decided that if we got married somewhere far away from my parents and her parents, those who really cared and could come, would and those who just wanted mints would just have to miss out on this one. We were both surprised to see people standing in our sealing room because there was no room to sit. That was a present we will never forget, nor could exchange for all the crock pots in the world. I will say that if I was 18 or 19, we would never have been able to afford to do that, but we thought that we would rather do something smaller and nicer which kept the focus on the wedding, not the reception. From what I have read, most of what has been discussed sounds like receptions, not temple sealings. This could be why some choose not to go all out, as the sealing is the real deal, not the sprite spiked punch before or after. Although, I will say that in my experience in retail sales to LDS people, some of us can be “frugal” for the most part, if not downright cheap at times. Another issue could be quantity. If you are having to pay for your fifth daughters wedding punch in two years, you might tend to skimp on the meatballs and head to Sam’s Club. And then there are the wicked traditions of our forefathers. Ok, so they aren’t wicked, just traditions, and what’s life about but fighting the traditions you despise and replacing them with traditions your grandchildren will hate!!!
So Hardy, if you didn’t enjoy my wedding, then keep it to yourself, because I thought it was fun, but just remember that the girls on the strip wanting to “date” you were not my doing. I wasn’t trying to set you up with anyone.
I agree with the cheapness of some Mormon receptions, but I find that a lot of my friends are finding creative ways to change that. Several friends in Boston, for example, got a group of our friends to play live jazz for their receptions. One couple had a dance floor along with that, the other couple had a sunset outdoor reception in the bride’s parents’ yard, with twinkle lights in the trees and beautiful candles on each table, with the jazz musicians under the tree.
The best wedding reception I’ve been to lately, though, was my non-LDS cousin’s wedding, at which a professional swing band played. Even though I was the only single person there, and few of my family were able to make it because of the distance (most are in IL and the reception was in RI), I had such a blast dancing out there with my little cousins and my aunts and uncles. It’s the celebration of the couple we often forget.
Yet Brendo has a point–the cheapness probably comes from the numbers game. However, I look to my small-town Illinois roots to at least deal with the money problem (it’s not just cheapness; it’s poorness). My sister recruited family members to help with things in which they have talents, for example. My uncle, the electrician, loves to take care of music (though I personally think I’ll try to get a live band when my turn comes). My cousins have great talent in cooking, and they love to help with the food. Our family tradition is to have a hog roast, which works because my dad raises pigs. Informal and inexpensive, yet with character.
Brendo: You wrote a longer article than I did. Jimmny Christmas. Why don’t you think you are a normal Mormon Guy?
Me, I’d consider myself on the more liberal side of the road.
For the most part, I’d agree with your feelings about the singles.
You know, I think that as with anything, if you are experiencing being “out” of a crowd, you notice it a lot more. If you are single with a bunch of married folk, you notice it. If you are having weight problems, you become much more sensitive to what others say/think. That’s just human nature.
I do think that family wards do have some problems with dealing with single people. I don’t think it’s on purpose, but it happens. I think that there is a big misconception that we are not whole human beings when we are not married.
Case-n-point, our unit is not treated the same as other units in the Stake. It’s as if we are not Young Single Adults, but a word is omited.
Young Singles.
We are not treated as peers. Unconsiously, we are not treated as Adults.
That’s why I love working with the Branch President I have now, he treats me as a peer.
If I go into work, my maritial status doesn’t change the way I’m treated by co-workers. If I go to school, my maritial status doesn’t influence my standing. I am judged solely on who I am.
Is this ever going to change? I think so, but not for my generation. Oh well.
Stacer: You know, I still think that the Culture in Utah is just one of being Cheap.
If you want read some interesting statistics, Zions has written two articles (one here and one here). Utah ranks as one of the highest in the nation for bankruptcy.
One interesting quote is
And then in the other Article
So that tells me a few things. The most important is, a large group of Utahns are willing to go into dept, and bankruptcy for big houses, and nice cars. To me, that just shows priorities.
Don’t get me wrong, I’ll go to a wedding, if it’s a close friend or family, but most of the time, why should I go to an event to CELEBRATE the joyous union of two people, when it’s not even that big of an event for thw two people?
Interesting articles. I might want to just add my two cents (pure opinion as one who gladly escaped from Happy Valley): there are larger families in UT, yes, and bigger houses go along with that. But when you look at the sheer accumulation of worthless junk they have as well, it’s staggering, and most likely why the prophet has repeatedly warned us against pride and debt. Along with the house, they have the SUV’s, boats, jetskis, ATV’s and all other necessary toys for playing in the mountains, all piled up next to the 8 room house that is over-mortgaged.
And the women there can’t even go to McD’s and get the kids a happy meal without being dressed up the hilt and making their kids do the same. I saw a woman on my last visit to the parents (it was winter) in a silk lined, full length winter coat, expensive boots, nails done, hair highlighted, with a little girl in Gap kids from head to toe and a little baby, so small it couldn’t hold its head up, in a Tommy Hilfiger sweatsuit and baby reeboks. Hello! That right there was likely $500+ spent on clothes. To go get a freaking happy meal! I’m from Florida, so going to Utah in the winter meant I had to basically buy a whole new wardrobe to go see the fam (I own no closed-toed shoes–we wear flip flops all year here) and I was upset because I spent over a hundred dollars to buy clothes for my whole family. (I live for the clearance rack.)
So maybe it’s not so much a matter of cheapness from numbers of children getting married, but skewed priorities. Mom is heading to Sams’ club to get the meatballs and frozen cream puffs for the reception, but what do you want to bet her outfit and hair do cost more than her ‘catering?’
I disagree that family wards have problems dealing with singles. I may be an exception, but I feel more at home in my family ward than the YSA branch. I feel beloved by my bishop and stake president and welcomed by the ward families. I feel I have something to contribute in my calling. I feel valued and that my testimony is strengthened by the examples of my ward families in their various life stages and thay my testimony also strengthens others. I learn from them and get to see the full circle of life and not just a skewed little peice of it. It is at the branch that I feel out of place and instead of growing, feel like I regress into some awkward, insecure teenager, rather than the competant, independent, true woman that I am. Perhaps this is because I am a convert and this is my first family ward after being in singles branches for almost 10 years. But the family ward is renewing to me and gives me a hope that fights against sadness of the heart broken and hurting families I work with in my job and the one I belonged to growing up. I think you get from whatever ward/branch you attend what you are prepared to recieve. If you go in with an attitude of look at all that I don’t have, rather than an attitude of what can I share and contribute, than you will go away with feelings of being dejected and forgotten by the Lord, rather than blessed and thankful for the blessing you have. (And yes, I know this because I too have had my pity parties on occasion.)
PS – I agree with Brendo, the temple should be the true focus of that special day. Isn’t this why ring ceremonies and such are discouraged? To me, it’s kind of like Christmas day, do you go to receptions to see what you can get and begrudging what you give, or in a spirit of celebration and love and to share in the joy of your friends and family? Not everyone can afford a fancy reception or may want to avoid going into further debt when they could spend that money on establishing their new family.
You know, I agree with most of what has been said here, sure there are a lot of people who DO have skewed priorites with the boats, atv’s and such. But at the same time, i think a wedding can be a the same thing. When my wife and I had our wedding, we did it at the church house, we didn’t go “all out” we didn’t have the DJ, the limo, the catered food, and you know what? we still shelled out roughly $4500 dollars for the whole thing (we did have plenty of food and i felt like the guests were pretty well taken care of). We had looked into getting stuff catered, and at a wedding reception place, but the cheapest we could find was in the $1200 range, just for the building, this price did not include any food, which you had to buy close to $800 in order to actually book the place. The food consisted of deli meats and rolls, and some of the charges included 25 cents a cup for water, and a 50 cent “cake cutting” fee, which didn’t include the cake, you had to provide that yourself.
When one of my best friends had his wedding where they went “all out” he had to pay $15 dollars a plate for each guest, you add up all my family members that went and compare that to what we gave him as gifts, he spent more on US than we did on HIM.
When it comes to priorities I guess I don’t see the point in spending $10+ thousand on one single day when you can do a modest wedding and use that money elsewhere. Even if it is for a boat or atv.
C.G: I think that may be in part because you are a girl. I can tell you that at my age, I’m an anominally, being an active single guy. I see the rolls of the branch, and I know how many guys my age have just lapsed into inactivity. Take a look at the temple to see the skewed ratios (meaning, I think females are more spiritual by nature). The Church is also more accepting of Single Sisters.
As a Single Guy here’s what I can’t do
– You’ll never see me as a Bishop/Stake Pres/etc
– Can’t be a temple worker
– I’m a menace to society
– In esseance I’m dammed because I was unable to find a mate within a set amount of time. I cannot exersize any leadership (not that I’m a leadership grubber). Mind you, I have access to both General Handbooks of Instruction (Church leadership handbooks) and they don’t reference your maritial state, but it’s all a “unspoken rule”.
As for the entire reception thing. I agree with Juli. It’s all a matter of priorities. Back to Erin and Juli’s article, I don’t go to many receptions because 1) I tend to get a lot more reception invites from members that I don’t really know, than I do with non members.
2) If the reception isn’t important to them, why should it be important to me?
I’m not saying I don’t send gifts, or give gifts, I do, but at the same time, I think a few LDS receptions have just become the equivalent of Christmas.
Intresting info on weddings/etc here
Interesting post by Nemisis on a reception invite she got…
I can’t speak for the other callings, but you can volunteer in the temple as an ordinance worker or in the laundry or kitchen if you wish. I thought you had to be married too until I asked. There are many single sisters and brothers who volunteer there. And men are needed…there are about twice as many women volunteers.
Hardy, Hardy, Hardy. I hate to disagree with my brotha-from-anotha-motha, but I must say that not being called to a leadership calling because you are single is not because you lack experience or a spouse. Sure it’s an unwritten rule, more so here in the States than other places, but it’s not about you being underqualified or less of a person because you are single. It’s all about priorities. Family is first. If they made you Bishop next week, or you worked in the temple every weekend, what would happen to your social life? Sure it probably wouldn’t disappear and you would make a great Bishop or enjoy working in the temple, but at what cost? Life is busy enough without a calling. Imagine all of your nights up at church, or traveling on weekends to visit your stake. Can you say “dateless”. Maybe the church should go to the opposite extreme and cancel all weekly night activitites too and tell their members to date during the week and on weekends. I bet marriages would improve greatly, singles’ dating lives would improve and we’d all be happier, although we might all go broke. That is of course, if we acutally did it instead of other activities. Lol.
“Menace to society”…. um yeah, get a hold of your mission president and have him find out which church record has that quote in it, unless you happen to know off the top of your head, of course??? Steve Young’s interview with 60 minutes doesn’t count. After all, you know how many concussions he has had?
I think you can find any angle in church you are looking for, especially the stereotypes. At the same time, if you look beyond those, you can also see the other side.
I enjoyed Gordon’s post. It makes you wonder. Why not go all out on, not the most important day of your life, but possibly the most important day of Eternity, when you can spend less and get his and her jetskies? Ok, so that was sarcastic!!! You have to draw the line somewhere, but man, that one event affects your eternal future, not just the next 50 years. Why not celebrate and then hope that jetskies are free in Heaven??? Ironic isn’t it that such an important event actually costs you no money? Can you imagine if you had to “rent” the temple? Would they all be the same price??? Perhaps the large sealing rooms would be more, and the bigger newer temples would be more too. Sure, you could argue the tithing side, but just think of the problems we would run into if there was a charge. I think that really shows where the Church puts its priorities. Everyone can afford it, no matter where you live. Going into debt to party afterwards is just plain hypocritical, but if you have 10 grand in the bank to spend on a memorable experience, why not? That memory will last much longer than that new boat. Think eternally. Your memory goes with you, the Tahoe stays here.
Complete Tangent: I’m not sure I agree with those who say women are more spiritual than men. I think we have different gifts and talents to contribute, but one is not more spiritual than the other. (Which is of course why we need each other to make it Home.)Perhaps it seems so because women are more nurturing in nature. But we also need the strength and guidance and assertiveness/leadership of worthy men. I appreciate the honor you show women by saying we’re more spiritual, but I (again) have a different perspective, as a convert having seen men of the world compared to men of the church. You have no idea how different it feels as a woman to be respected, honored and valued by men of the church who (for the most part) treat us with compassion and kindness and deference. Compare this to men of the world who tend to look at women as objects of pleasure and mere bodies rather than human beings with hearts and minds. I don’t know that I can explain how degrading that is and how soul stealing. That you can look at a woman without what my sister calls “elevator eyes” and see the whole picture or see her at least partially how Heavenly Father sees her is no small thing. That you can resist the overwhelming temptations of the world and judge women by God’s standards of beauty, rather than the world’s is no small feat. Don’t underestimate yourself as a man. Strong priesthood leaders who can lead and guide and love like the Savior are needed and stand in sharp contrast to men of the world. If not for such examples, how would those who have experienced abuse, hurt, and neglect at the hands of men ever be able to believe that Heavenly Father and the Savior can love them differently? If there are fewer worthy men, then how much greater is your responsibility to stand out in good ways. So, I have to say it’s a cop out to say women are more spiritual; don’t underestimate yourself. I see in the children and families I work with and in the lives of dear friends the extreme pain and sometimes eternal damage caused by selfish men of the world who think only of their own personal gratification. Worthy priesthood holders stand out in wonderful ways and that is as it should be.
C.G: I haven’t asked any temple presidency members if I can do ordinance work, but from what I’ve heard, they discourage mid aged single men from volunteering. I may be wrong though, since that’s from a second source.
Brendo: Riddle me this, how does being married change the leadership/calling situation ANYWAYS? Now that I’ve got the girl, married her, it’s ok to make my life so busy I don’t get to see her anyways? What exactly is the difference? Having a busy calling and trying to date, or have a busy calling and trying to maintain courtship with your wife? I know that a wife can be a source of comfort, but she can be just as big a source of stress as well 😉
As for the reception, that’s a lot of what I was pointing to. If you don’t have the money, then don’t spend it. Then make it a nice *little* intimate affair. Gordon, I thought yours was nice. Your “friends” reception was the opposite end of the spectrum. I’d like to find a nice middle of the road.
Of course, I’ve been known to eat my words more than once, right my siblings? 🙂
Chris, there are single men older than you who volunteer as ordinance workers.
Here they call you to be an ordinance worker or work in the baptistry or whatever if they find out you are willing to.
I have nothing wise to say, but I am surprised at all the comments on this section of the blog.
I was engaged after 3 months of dating my husband, we were married 7 months later (pure torture–just like whoever said not getting to move to the next level) and we have been ever so happy.
My husband is nearly 10 years older than me and boy were a bunch of girls ticked off that he married a “barely 20 year old” but really, I had dated a fair amount of men (over 150) and I was done. I knew I wanted to be married and that I wanted to have a family. That’s what I did, I got married and I have a family. And Ron (my husband) didn’t date the older girls (and I don’t mean old, but right around 23 or older) because they were rude to him and they were cranky about everything in their lives. Now, that is a generalization, but he did give them each a chance and it was a miserable experience.
My husband thought he would be single the rest of his life, literally I had to practically chase him down. But I knew what I wanted, I knew it was him and I have been blessed by making that call. So. . .I don’t criticize the kids who get married young. I do think it’s sad that people become so selfish that they can’t stay married. I think people have this illusion that everything will be easy and perfect. I think it’s hard for them to imagine that “it’s not all about me” when in reality it’s all aboug “us”. It’s a lot of work, even for us it has been work at times, but every morning, my husband reminds me that he feels like EVERY morning is “Christmas” morning 🙂
I guess I am all over the topic. Please excuse me, but I have only had about 3 hours of sleep 🙂 See ya’ll.
We are all bitter about the 2 month engagements after one week of date’n…until it happens to us! Then we will be all for the cheesy mormon reception that everyone and their dog attends! I think love makes people dumb…but I guess we can’t knock it till we have tried it!! I’ll be the first one in line for a free sample!
Hardy, whoever told you a wife can be a source of stress must be married to the wrong person. Ok, so maybe that’s a stretch. Here’s how I see it. Once you are married and live together, your time “together” inherently increases dramatically. Those who date while unemployed and refuse to leave each other’s side while conscious are the exceptions, I guess, and rare. The dilemma is that the quantity of time rises, but the quality of the time can decrease, hence the challenge of keeping it alive. While dating, going to dinner or to see a movie are “events” and treated as such. When you are married, dinner happens day in and day out and becomes less of and event and more of a routine. Movies, remain about the same in that there is no interaction between the people for the most part, just you and the screen, and if the movie is good, the date is good, so as you begin to realize that, staying at home to rent a movie becomes more appealing, because at least there you can run to the fridge and get some ice-cream without losing your right arm, and talk to your spouse during the flick without being yelled at. This is of course unless it’s a Tom Cruise movie, then you must be silent the entire time (right dear?). Sorry, that was a tangent. My point is that because you are now together for so much more time, the quality of your time tends to decrease. Well, if you figure out how to maintain or even improve the quality of your time together, then you won’t need the same quantity to keep things on target. Don’t get me wrong, the desire to be with my wife 24 hours a day is still very much alive in my mind, but I do have a job after all and have to be able to buy that ice-cream, so quality time takes precedent over quantity to some degree. Add in the fact that any good LDS wife will bend over backwards to not only support, but motivate you in your calling and you get even more efficient in the quality time aspect of home and your calling. So while seriously dating we may have spent 15 or 20 hours a week together, now that we are married, just by living together we spend easily over 40 together. So even if I spent 10 hours a week working in a calling, I am still 10 ahead of where I was dating. Going back to motivation, I guarantee you that if there is a way to cut those 10 hours down to 8 by working harder, in order to spend 2 more quality hours with my wife, I’m doing it. Would you do that dating? Of course you would, but it may be 15 minutes here or there, and if you save 15 minutes at 10:15 p.m., are you really going to head home, get dressed into your dating attire, grab something to eat and then drive over to her house that late to spend a few waking minutes together before the HG retires at midnight??? You probably won’t, especially if her dad or roommates like to get any sleep. But if she’s at your house, then you’re home by 10:30 enjoying a hoagie with the love of your life, and the HG never retires, so you stay up as late as you like. I fear this is sounding like a promotion to shack up with someone. Lol.
Am I wrong?
Melanie – If you dated over 150 guys by the time you were 20, then your experience automatically makes you older than that. I think the problems that do occur happen more often when youth and inexperience are combined. I think you can get away with not having one, but neither has a lot more risk involved. Again, 100 years ago, we wouldn’t be having this conversation, as everyone married younger, but then again commitment meant a lot more then. Getting out of the “contract” is much easier and acceptable today. And of course there are the stories of those who married thier first love, right out of high school and are perfectly happy. It’s all about the odds, though. You could argue the same about marrying outside the church. Sure there are the few that end up converting, but the odds are that it won’t happen, so why put your letters on that Scrabble board?
Brendo- Brigham Young started the infamous “menace to society” rumor. It was echoed by Ezra Taft Benson, but only once. It has since then been “refuted” or “repealed” by many GA’s.
I can’t speak for all of the temples, but in the Wash DC temple single men can serve until they are 30 as ordinance workers. But on their 31st they no longer get to. In a district where most of the temple workers are the singles, that policy has caused many a frustration from the men. One day they were good enough, the next day they weren’t.
EA – Where did Brigham Young say that, and where did Pres. Benson echo it? Do you know the sources?
C.G.: Let me clarify myself. When I say women are more spirtual, I mean that as gender, women are more committed. As you said, there are more female temple workers. *Every* time I’ve been to the Temple (with the exception of the MTC) there have been 1.5 to 2 times the women than men. The fact that there are also a lot less less-active sisters than brothers also tells me that girls tend to be a bit better at staying active.
Heather: Not this Dude.
Brendo: You crack me up. At the same time, I think there is a reason that the church tends to call those who don’t have kids, or have kids gone to the big callings. To me, it’s a balancing act. If you are going to screw up your priorities when you are single, you are in no way going to do better married. The fact that divorce still happens at the Stake Presidency level shows that…
Got to disagree again Hardman. You can do better with your priorities when you are married, for the same reason you can do better when you are living at home with your parents (good ones). Don’t get me wrong, I am not advocating living with your folks for 30 years, but think about this. What kinds of things, albeit small ones, do you do now, that your mom would have not let you get away with??? Perhaps it’s something you do, or say, or act a certain way. And don’t say “nothing”, we know better. Lol. Well, a good spouse can do the same thing for you – hold you to a higher standard than you might if you were alone. Some people marry, and I suppose they shrink to the lowest common denominator, but I think that you should feed off of each other’s high qualities and raise your own to theirs. If your mom had to nag you to change or do something, then odds are that your spouse will have to do the same thing, since that’s what works, but if your parents had better methods of motivating and supporting, then odds are your spouse will motivate and support you in the same types of ways. So, as long as you pick a “winner”, then your priorities not only could be better when married, but they should be. After all, two people working on the same priorities ought to yield higher results. Yes?
Going to weddings only intensify the pressure of being single. Sure, singlehood has its advantages, but couplehood has too. Depending on who you’re going to ask, couplehood might even have more advantages than singlehood. Being the eternal bachelor can be a curse, but then,depending (again) on who you’re plannign to ask, it can be a blessing.
Brendo: That’s all if you manage to pick a winner. Or someone who doesn’t get jelous that she’s coming in third most important behind Work and Church.
I mean, both you and I know church leaders who are divorced now.
I think you and me will just have to agree to disagree.